Halloween: Spooky Finances Edition with Lori Atwood, CFP
Therapists talk about everything except money, and that cost could be leaving you with money anxiety.
Too many therapists feel financially drained even while helping others heal. The truth is, avoiding your numbers only fuels money anxiety and keeps you from the financial empowerment you deserve.
In this Halloween: Spooky Finances Edition with Lori Atwood, CFP, we face the real-life fears that keep clinicians up at night. Lori, founder of Fearless Finance and a seasoned financial empowerment guru, helps therapists replace fear with clarity through simple, human strategies to help you release that money anxiety.
Dr. Jennifer Politis, Dr. Lori Atwood, and Erika Bugaj get real about the hidden shame and overwhelm behind bookkeeping for therapists. Together with Lori, they unpack how to stop ignoring your money, reframe your money anxiety, and finally create a relationship with your finances that feels aligned and sustainable.
You’ll learn:
Why therapists feel financially drained even when their calendars are full
How a money mindset coach reframes money anxiety into confidence and control
The essential year-end steps for confident bookkeeping for therapists
Practical ways to strengthen your financial empowerment before the new year
What small mindset shifts can turn dread into clarity
Lori’s honest, practical approach proves that you are never too far gone to find financial empowerment. If you’ve been avoiding your books or feeling financially drained, this conversation will leave you grounded, calm, and ready to rebuild a healthier relationship with money.
🎃 No tricks, only practical treats for your wallet and your well-being.
WATCH THE FULL VIDEO EPISODE HERE!
Connect with us!
Website: www.offthechair.com
Instagram: @offthechairpodcast
YouTube: @offthechairpodcast
Colleen Long, Psy.D.
Website: www.claritypsychologicaltesting.com
LinkedIn: Dr. Colleen Long
Jennifer Politis, PhD, LPC
Website: www.wellnesscounselingBC.com
Instagram: @wellnesscounselingnj
TikTok: @wellnesscounseling
LinkedIn: Jennifer Politis
Erika Bugaj, MA, MSW, LICSW
Website: www.dandelioncounselingcare.com
Instagram: @dandelioncounselingcare
LinkedIn: Erika Bugaj
Lori Atwood, CFP
Instagram: www.instagram.com/fearlessfinance/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fearlessfinance
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[00:00:10] Erika: Welcome back to Off the Chair, the podcast where therapists step out from behind the chair and talk about the real-life side of running a practice.
[00:00:20] Jen: And today we're diving into something a little spooky. Finances. For many of us, money can feel scarier than a haunted house, especially at the end of the year.
[00:00:30] Erika: That's why we're thrilled to have Lori Atwood, founder and CEO of Fearless Finance, with us today. Lori is a certified financial planner who has been helping people who their financial fears for over 25 years.
[00:00:44] Jen: Lori specializes in solo practitioners, small business owners, and especially women, helping them find clarity and confidence when money feels like a monster under the bed. Lori, welcome. We are so excited to have you as a guest today. I think many of us, therapists and practice owners, and women really don't like to talk about the topic of finances, so we are very excited to have you on today.
[00:01:09] Lori: Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:12] Erika: Well, let's get started. Lori, I think, as Jen just mentioned, a lot of people feel like finances are something to avoid, like the monster in the closet. Why do you think money feels so scary to many of us?
[00:01:26] Lori: Well, it's not the money. It's not, it's never the money. It's the shame and embarrassment and guilt that go along with the actions that have been taken. Created whatever the situation is. I mean, that's the funny thing that it's, that it's really never the money's fault. All the money is, is this tool that we use to count stuff.
[00:01:48] Lori: And, um, it really, if you can treat it and embrace it as what it is, which is a tool, then you stop sort of blaming the money. It's really funny to me because people say, Oh, you know, a top three cause of divorce is money. Not really, but the money is the manifestation of the underlying issues. And so, if you are, you know, to use one of your words, and if you're avoidant and you're not paying attention to what's going on in your practice or your household, then like anything in the closet, it's gonna become huge and frightening. If you're not paying attention to your dentistry and you're not getting your teeth cleaned, you are gonna start freaking out because you know that at some point you're gonna have a toothache and you're gonna have a problem with your teeth. You can catch it early, pay a little less, you catch it later, and possibly have a lot more pain and a lot more financial cost.
[00:02:52] Jen: Yeah, that's a good point because I think even in the beginning when I started the practice, I was avoiding money in the beginning, and I just, what my husband would say, but like, you're not making any money. You're in the red. Like, what? What's happening? And I kind of definitely avoided it at the beginning.
[00:03:06] Lori: Yeah. And that's, that's the thing is part of my job is just getting people to not hate it and just respect it for what it is, which is just this. A one aspect of your practice. It's just a tool and it's just something, it's a, it's the six-monthly dental cleaning. It just has to be done, you know? It has to be handled correctly.
[00:03:31] Jen: So what are some of the most spooktacular mistakes that you see solo practitioners and business owners make with their money?
[00:03:38] Lori: There are a few. So the number one thing I would say is that when you're a solo practitioner and you're just starting out, and especially if you're part of a household, if you're not kind of single and you know there's an expectation of a certain amount of money to be earned and taken back to that household each month to pay the cable bill to do all the things that the household does, and solar practitioners and small business owners of all kinds will hide behind.
[00:04:10] Lori: This statement. My, my income is lumpy. I don't know. I don't know what I earn. Okay, don't do that. Please don't do that. So let's un-lumpy it so that you can take a salary home to the household, and husbands and partners and wives are not yelling at you. And. You know that your business is doing fine and you're able to pay for all of the expenses that are related to your business.
[00:04:40] Lori: And so the first thing I wanna sit down with a, um, by the way, I have at least a hundred therapists in my practice.
[00:04:48] Jen: That's great.
[00:04:49] Lori: Um, I somehow years ago got hung up on a listserv and. I just, I've got just about every lots of the therapists, so I'm very familiar with that. But I also have dentists and acupuncturists and plumbers and all kinds of people who have solo practitioner issues, finances.
[00:05:10] Lori: And so what you wanna do is figure out what you're making each month, figure out what your costs are. You might have supervision, you have insurance, and you have pencils and pens that we all have. You may have. Utility bills that are attributable to your office may include rent. Let's subtract all of those things, and let's see what comes out at the bottom that you can take home as an owner's draw.
[00:05:35] Lori: And that's assuming that you're either a solo practitioner or an LLC. If you're an S corp, let's have that discussion later. That's a slightly different animal. So then what we wanna do is see if your revenues are. Sort of consistent, what I find with therapists, unless they're adolescent and child therapists, where the summer is less, it's pretty consistent.
[00:06:00] Lori: It's pretty consistent. You can't hide behind the lumpiness that some of my other clients definitely have. I got a woman who sells tea, loose-leaf tea. Right? That's definitely seasonal therapy is less seasonal. So you should know if you are. Hey, I can take 17 sessions a week. That is what I can take with my children and all my other obligations.
[00:06:27] Lori: We can easily calculate what you should be making each month, and we can give you an air quote salary that you take home every month, and that's gonna flatten that lumpiness, make sure all the expenses are paid, and take care of what my second biggest issue is with therapists, which is. Your taxes are an obligation.
[00:06:48] Lori: It's not your money.
[00:06:50] Jen: Yeah, that's a good point.
[00:06:52] Lori: It's not your money. So make sure that you have some tax experts. Some, even if you're using, you know, some online app. I don't care. That's fine, as long as it's reputable. That's fine. Do your quarterlies and make sure there's money there for the quarterlies. That's not your money. That has to be paid as long as you're right with the IRS and the state.
[00:07:15] Lori: Usually, we can get you out of any issue that you have. So I would say those are the top two things. Maybe if I add a third, it would be, yes, you have to save for retirement, and no, you're not gonna die at your desk. Okay. This, you're speaking to someone who has a 90-year-old mother who has had dementia for seven years already, and she's still going strong. We have to assume 10 to 15 years minimally of inability to work.
[00:07:44] Lori: So you can't ignore that, no matter what you do, no matter how much you love your craft, again, you have to do it.
[00:07:51] Erika: Oh, I was just gonna reflect that. I do hear that from a lot of therapists that they plan to just work as long as they can, and you know, we'll still be working because we get better as we get older.
[00:08:06] Lori: Yeah, but you don't get more energy as you get older. So
[00:08:10] Erika: It's true.
[00:08:10] Lori: I have a therapist client who's in her eighties, early eighties. She takes three or four clients a week, that's it. And although that is still income, that's not enough. So you have to plan for that. You have to plan for things like maternity leave, right?
[00:08:33] Lori: You eat what you kill as a solo practitioner. And so we have to plan for all of those things. You know, you cannot stick your head in the sand about this stuff.
[00:08:41] Erika: Okay. So if therapists have been avoiding looking at their numbers all year and they feel too scared to even log into their bank account right now, can you add some clarity as to where they could start and what they could look at to kind of take away some of that fear and that pain?
[00:09:02] Lori: So the first thing I would say is what I just said, which is that if you are right with the IRS and the state, there is nothing you should be scared of. It's just an organizational issue at that point. Okay. And even if you're not right with the IRS and the state, when I say the state, I mean the state taxes.
[00:09:24] Lori: Even if you're not right with them, we can get you right pretty quickly if you're still wor, as long as you're still working. So what I'm gonna say is. I'm gonna quote FDR. There's nothing to fear but fear itself here; there's nothing that we can't get you out of. As long as you're continuing to work and your schedule is full, we're gonna get it sorted out, right?
[00:09:48] Lori: And the reason I can say that is because, unlike, say, somebody who makes cupcakes for a living, they need ovens. They need workers, they need delivery vans. They need. Inputs like butter and flour, and things that could be under tariff. They need all of those things, and they may have debt to have bought that equipment.
[00:10:13] Lori: That is a far more complex situation. You know, where bankruptcy is definitely possible, if not probable, in the case of some food prep places, that's not the case with therapy, right? Have a laptop, we'll give therapy like it. It's not, this is not an issue. So what we need to do is sit down and face what we have and get it organized, but don't be afraid because it's all fixable.
[00:10:47] Erika: Yeah, that's really reassuring for, to hear you say, you know, that things are fixable, no one's too far gone. And even if you've made some mistakes, you can always go back and correct them. And I've, I've, that's been my experience. A solo practice and then moving into group practice is that mistakes have been made for sure, but with your help and with some focus on what I need to do, corrections can happen, which is a feeling of liberation, not fear.
[00:11:17] Lori: Right. And you want that for your own clients, I'm guessing, is that you're saying, you know, if you have, you know, some relationship or something in your past that you need to rectify to move on, you're gonna tell them to face it.
[00:11:29] Erika: Yes, of course.
[00:11:31] Lori: I'm saying.
[00:11:32] Jen: I think one of the biggest issues that therapists face is, is their money mindset. I really do. I think that was something I struggled with the most, but I think. Erica, I'm sure you can say the same in all of our mastermind groups, coaching, and meetings with other colleagues. That's like the number one thing they all complain about.
[00:11:51] Jen: They just don't know. I feel like they have to work on their money mindset first. And I'm sure Lori, you have to kind of, you're almost like a mini therapist, I'm sure. Coaching them a little bit of like, you have to do this.
[00:12:04] Lori: Well, that's right. And I have no training in therapy. None. And if anything, I have anti-training, having been brought up on the trading floor. It's not a therapy-rich environment, by any stretch. And, so I'm very direct about it. And one of the things that I find is. At least I find it helpful that if I can get people to understand that there is nothing to be afraid of, that we just need to fix it.
[00:12:30] Lori: We need to get the right buckets put together. We need to get you doing the right auto things, auto transfers, and auto payments, and then it's extremely empowering. Right? It should be a goal you wanna reach. Kind of a thing because imagine how great it would feel, and this is the money mindset comment, to feel empowered about your finances, to be like, I walk around knowing that everything is okay in my practice financially, and all I need to do is worry about my next training and my next thing I'm gonna do with my clients and whatever else.
[00:13:03] Lori: Imagine that.
[00:13:04] Jen: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:05] Erika: So you mentioned a bit about taxes. I'm curious, as we head towards the end of the year, what kind of financial housekeeping would you recommend for small business owners and therapists to be doing so they don't get haunted? Come tax season?
[00:13:21] Lori: We're in Q4 right now. We just started it, so it's a little late, but that's okay. It and I, I do this, I actually do this mid-year with my own business as I call up my accountant, who's a good friend of mine. You know, she's local.
[00:13:37] Lori: She's here, yeah. My kid used to babysit her kid, and I call her up and I tell her what's going on with my finances, and I'm like. What should I feed the beast? And she just tells me what to give to both the state and the federal government, and it makes life a lot easier come April. So what I would say to people is it's not too late if you have someone who does your tax prep, fabulous.
[00:14:03] Lori: If you don't, you can use one of those online apps as long as it's reputable and you know what you're doing, and get an estimate of what it would be for 2025. If it's $10,000, that's the expected amount. I'm just making these amounts up, by the way. And you don't have the 10,000. You freak out, throw five at it.
[00:14:27] Lori: 'cause the government wants to know you haven't run away. That's all they care about. They wanna know you're there, and you get that they're there too. Usually, it's the same with the state. So just put toward it, whatever you can put toward it today if you haven't done so. Now, on the retirement side, which is also kind of a December 31st thing, if you haven't opened a retirement account, do so by December 31st. For 2025, I recommend that you open a solo 401k. Some banks will call that an I 401k for an individual, either one. It's the same thing. I call it solo because I look too much like a one, and people get confused, so I always call it a solo 401 (k), but open it at a discount broker and just throw something in it.
[00:15:28] Lori: Okay. That's the two things you need to do.
[00:15:31] Jen: Are there any other end-of-the-year tricks that actually feel like a treat, something else? I mean, that was a good suggestion that you just had, but are there other things that we can plan for and do?
[00:15:42] Lori: Well, they're the two big ones. You know, and this happens too. It happens less, but it's certainly happened. People have arrived in my office in this situation as well, where there's a ton of money sitting around, the checking account, the business checking account, and this person is so disconnected from their finances that they're too afraid to do anything with it anyway.
[00:16:04] Lori: And so. Either working with someone like like me or doing it yourself. You can figure out what you can bonus yourself out with in December, and then you can take some money out, and maybe there's a credit card at home that you wanna pay off. Maybe you need to replace the couch and the den, whatever it is.
[00:16:25] Lori: And that's a good feeling too.
[00:16:27] Lori: But yeah, that is, you can't do it unless you look,
[00:16:31] Lori: Or I should say, please don't do it unless you look.
[00:16:34] Jen: Yeah. What's one financial conversation you wish every therapist would have with you before the end of the year?
[00:16:43] Lori: Well, it's the financial conversation. It is getting the plan together, because a lot of times people will come to me.
[00:16:51] Lori: This is not always, but typically, females who have kids, young kids at home, and they're like, I only wanna take 14 sessions a week. Well, I don't know if that's enough for your household until I do a plan and sit down and figure it out.
[00:17:08] Lori: And so if you're wondering how much you can work, how you should be priced, how much you can save for retirement, what you can take home each month or every two weeks, or whatever you're doing. Distribution or salary, you've gotta come and get a plan done and figure it out. And what we do is we figure out the cap. You can do this yourself if you want to, or you can get help doing it. It doesn't matter. But you figure out what the revenue is, what all the expenses are, set aside money for, uh, retirement, set aside money for tax, and take a reasonable and consistent amount. Home, and then you head into the new year knowing what your salary's gonna be, so there's no partner or spouse yelling and screaming, knowing what you're gonna say for retirement, so you're not freaking out about retirement eventually, or dying at your desk or one of those things.
[00:18:01] Lori: And knowing that the IRS and the state are gonna get paid, that's a banner New Year.
[00:18:07] Jen: Yeah, it is.
[00:18:07] Lori: So that's the ultimate conversation.
[00:18:10] Erika: That is a great way to walk into a new year, your
[00:18:13] Erika: financial house
[00:18:14] Lori: in order and feeling empowered. And that's the only way you can figure out if you need for whatever family reasons to reduce your hours, if you can. There's no way to know that until we do the math, and I'll say to somebody, for what you need for the household, you need to take 18 sessions a week.
[00:18:36] Lori: If you don't wanna take 18 sessions a week, then you've gotta raise your price to X and you have to decide. And then my therapist constantly, this is another pet peeve of mine with therapists, but let me put it out there, please. Oh my God, please. The sliding scale. You've gotta stop. It's got to stop. You can have an A rate and a B rate, or however you wanna call it. That's what I call it. That's okay. But somebody's on the B rate. They're on the B rate temporarily or for a fixed amount of time, but there's no sliding scale because you are emptying your, I empty my tank for every client I see.
[00:19:16] Lori: Nobody gets treated better or worse than anyone else. It's the same; I assume a therapist is treating their clients the same way. And so why would the price be different? Right?
[00:19:29] Lori: 'cause you, at the end of the day,
[00:19:31] Lori: You are, you are an economic animal as well, which means if you are, if you're taking a bunch of people who are paying 50% of whatever your main rate is, you.
[00:19:41] Lori: You are not taking home enough money to do whatever you have to do on the household side. So you either have to take a bunch more people, which makes you cranky, right? Or two, you're not taking enough home, and you're struggling with scarcity issues at home. Neither of those is particularly good, so you're not doing anybody any favors with the sliding scale. I'm gonna have t-shirts made because I just hate the sliding scale.
[00:20:09] Jen: You should, you should have t-shirts made because it's a pet peeve of mine, because I feel like, and then it's telling that we don't value ourselves enough. I think that we're worth X amount. Yeah.
[00:20:19] Lori: What it's saying. If somebody, I mean, if you have a client, and right no,w where I live, this is happening a lot. Who's getting laid off? Who got laid off and is like. I still wanna continue my work with you. You could say, I'll drop my fee by 20% for six months while you're looking for a new job.
[00:20:39] Lori: I have no problem with that. It's the ongoing, oh, this person doesn't have enough really to see me, and so I'm gonna give them this price. You're just, you're cheating
[00:20:49] Lori: yourself. You're cheating your other clients. You're cheating. In the end. You probably are cheating that client too, because it's very hard to.
[00:20:58] Lori: Empty the tank when you know you're, you're getting, you know, a small amount of what you know you're worth. So I hate it. I hate it.
[00:21:06] Erika: In this area, we do have a lot of federal employees for clients. And so, you know, at the start of earlier this year, I'd say I implemented a reduced rate for, uh. Those folks who may be losing their jobs and need a temporary reduced rate. But it's a set rate that we offer universally across the board, and each therapist has a certain number of slots they can put clients into. And that has given me, that has liberated me
[00:21:38] Erika: from the sliding scale
[00:21:40] Lori: I think you and I did
[00:21:41] Erika: I also
[00:21:42] Lori: Just,
[00:21:42] Erika: do not
[00:21:43] Lori: Yeah.
[00:21:44] Lori: Because you're, what you're saying is exactly, it just sounds like me. Yeah, it's, it is A and B, and it's temporary, and you have a certain amount of slots that you are willing to do at the B level, and when you raise your price, because that's.
[00:22:00] Lori: Inevitably, a question that people ask all the time therapists, my preference is that you raise your price on the same day for everybody.
[00:22:09] Lori: No sliding scale. There's no way to be consistent and predictable without it. You could pick January one, but you don't have to. You could do April one. You could do June one, whatever suits you, and you bring everyone up, and then the people who are still in it at level B, then you make a decision whether they.
[00:22:27] Lori: What, however long they're in that level B situation. But bringing everyone up $5 a year is maddening. Raise your price every two years. Raise it.
[00:22:38] Erika: Well, that's. That's a plus when you are private; if you accept insurance, you probably get an increase every decade or so. a whole different ball game. Yeah.
[00:22:49] Erika: But just speaking to that, because it is a limitation for those who
[00:22:54] Erika: have insurance based
[00:22:55] Erika: practices.
[00:22:56] Lori: hard. Insurance-based practices.
[00:22:58] Lori: They are really hard, and there are very few of them in the area that I live in, at least. And that's because they're very hard. I mean, go try and find a dentist who takes insurance. It's really hard, and so the challenge there is you are, as the practitioner, giving up. Your freedom to charge what you think you're really worth. And the trade off is that, oh, I don't have to market, 'cause people just come to me. And what I encourage my therapists to do is to really sit and think about their mission as a therapist and their priorities. Because if they're just doing it because they're afraid of marketing.
[00:23:44] Lori: That doesn't make sense. I do have one or two where it is their mission to treat people who could never afford them without insurance. And if that's the case, fabulous. Just getting paneled and taking the insurance that you're gonna take. And that's fabulous.
[00:24:01] Lori: But if you're doing it as a crutch 'cause you're afraid of marketing, you know, I would say let's pull our pants up and. Go do it. It's gonna, it's gonna be crappy for about six to eight to nine in this economy, six to 12 months. But just do it because that's what you want to do.
[00:24:17] Erika: So, we noticed that one of your focuses in your business is helping women feel more confident with their money. Do you feel like there are unique fears that women face when it comes to
[00:24:29] Erika: finances?
[00:24:29] Lori: unique fears, no sensitivities. Yes. Women, in my opinion. And there, I have no academic research on this. It's just taking thousands of clients over the years and years. Um, women are far more sensitive to scarcity and to embarrassment or guilt or whatever you, whatever words you're gonna put to shame. Right?
[00:24:58] Lori: They're more sensitive 'cause dudes are just like, yeah. I did this, I bought this GameStop, and it went to nothing. And yeah, I know that was your grandmother's money and it was supposed to be for our kids' college, but oh, well. And they're not all like that, but many of them are like that. And women, and again, they're not all like this, but many of them, they feel that sense.
[00:25:22] Lori: You know, like, oh my gosh, I inherited this money. It's supposed to be for the, you know, whatever. It's whatever it is. There's more sensitivity. I don't think there are unique fears. Right now, at least in my practice, in my urban area, I would say at least 50%, but probably more women make more than their male if it's a straight couple than their male, male counterparts.
[00:25:52] Lori: So, those fears that my mother's generation had. They are not the same.
[00:25:59] Jen: And what's one way women can feel more empowered to take the mask off and see their
[00:26:04] Jen: finances more clearly?
[00:26:06] Lori: Well, I mean, the greatest empowerment is knowing knowledge is the greatest empowerment period. Right? And you know, there was that old commercial in the nineties. Like, it's better to know, it's best to know with HIV. It's best to know your finances.
[00:26:21] Lori: Nobody wants a financial surprise.
[00:26:24] Lori: That's the last place anybody wants surprises.
[00:26:27] Lori: It's much better to know. Chances are, we can fix it. You may not like the medicine that you have to take, but we can fix it. I've only seen one or two situations where, really, I just did not know what to do, and those usually involve the IRS. So you can fix it. So don't be afraid of it. So either get help if you don't wanna do it on your own or do it on your own.
[00:26:55] Lori: And really sit and shine the brightest light you have on what the reality is of your finances, 'cause I guarantee you, you're gonna feel better afterwards. Not worse. 'cause you're gonna know now you may have to implement a plan that creates, a certain level of austerity and you're just gonna have to be a big kid about it and do it because you know that that's the long term right thing to do because personal finance and small business finance, it's just a trade off between long and short term.
[00:27:30] Lori: That's all it is. That's the dirty little secret. I'd be out of a job if everybody got that, but. I don't think I'm gonna be out of a job anytime soon, to be honest, because people are too afraid to do it on their own. They want confirmation, and that's what I provide. And so it's the, it's the playoff of long and short.
[00:27:46] Lori: It's the playoff of, oh my God, I had the worst week. I'm gonna go to Bloomingdale's against, I really want to only take 14 sessions a week. You can't do any of those things unless you know.
[00:28:00] Erika: Yeah, and as therapists, we're very familiar with that sort of dynamic, or you know, what happens with folks who are, you know, maybe reliant on spending. At Bloomingdale's or other places, for their coping mechanisms, you know, and we help try to help folks develop healthier coping mechanisms, in our roles as therapists.
[00:28:25] Erika: It sounds like you're kind of like more black and white about it. Like, you have to stop, you can't do this anymore. So there it's not as, not as much of a
[00:28:35] Erika: gentle, a
[00:28:36] Lori: It's not as gentle, and I'll go you one further than what you just said, which is, and, and I say this all the time, and I'd love to have t-shirts made about this, but. The worst thing for your finances, whether you're a small business person or you're a W2 and you work at IBM, the worst thing for your finances is unhappiness. If you have unhappiness or some hole in your relationship with your partner, with your mother, with your child, with your body, with your job, with whatever, with the past, whatever it is, I guarantee you, your finances are suffering as a result of the coping mechanism. Fix the gap, fill the hole, get a different job.
[00:29:22] Lori: Get right with your mother or your sister or your child or your spouse. Find a live-in house you wanna live in. Get your job the way you wanna get it, and I guarantee your finances will be better. Satisfaction is by far the best financial medicine.
[00:29:40] Lori: And so.
[00:29:41] Erika: Preach, Lori.
[00:29:43] Lori: Right. So I don't want you to cope. I want you to fix it.
[00:29:46] Jen: That's such good advice.
[00:29:48] Jen: Lori, is there a financial myth or a kind of financial ghost story that you've, you would like to put to rest for good?
[00:29:55] Lori: Wow. That's an interesting question. I think I put one of them to bed earlier, but it probably bears reiterating. You are not going to die at your desk. You will have time. And I like to always plan with 10 to 15 years where you cannot work. So we need to prepare for that period. Anything else is sticking your head in the sand. Sometimes, I have people who are not therapists who don't enjoy their jobs that much, who also say, Well, I'll just die at my desk. And I'm like, no, you won't. So let's get prepared. So I would say that that's one of them, but the other one is, on a more positive note, which is that it's usually fixable, so let's fix it.
[00:30:42] Jen: Yeah. I don't know why most therapists and practice owners think it's not fixable. Yeah, yeah. They do. They go in with that mindset.
[00:30:50] Lori: I don't either. They're, they're usually not numbers people. Some are, but usually not. And I find this with my attorneys, too. They are not numbers people; there's nothing to be afraid of.
[00:31:03] Erika: Are there any, you know, sort of financial resources, tools, books, anything you would recommend for our listeners, especially those who are therapists or you know, group practice owners?
[00:31:16] Erika: solo practitioners.
[00:31:18] Lori: I don't love books because they get stale right away. They're kind of old news right away. And so I don't have that kind of thing. What I will say is the best thing you can do for your finances overall is to track what's going on. And so find, I mean, there are a zillion apps now and software, web, web apps, or phone apps, whatever you want.
[00:31:46] Lori: Find something that you're comfortable with and track, and I still have people who use pencil and paper. That's okay too. Or, you could use a spreadsheet if you want, but do track, from the standpoint of other resources. What I really worry about is all the misinformation out there. I mean, I'm not a big social media person, my age, my generation, or whatever.
[00:32:16] Lori: When I do get on to look at like otter videos or dog videos, and I still get past a bunch of finance stuff. I don't know. Somehow they know what I do for a living, whatever it is, and I'm shocked at how wrong, just downright wrong. The information is. Sometimes it's just exaggerated, but a lot of times it's just downright wrong.
[00:32:42] Lori: Especially with related to trading and tax. So please be careful. Be careful out there.
[00:32:53] Erika: I think they, the algorithm figures us all out because, you know, I get the targeted therapy.
[00:32:59] Lori: yeah,
[00:32:59] Erika: all kinds of business ads.
[00:33:02] Lori: Yeah. Sometimes I think they just read your email signature and like go from there. Something I don't.
[00:33:08] Jen: Yep.
[00:33:09] Lori: Yeah.
[00:33:10] Erika: Quite possible.
[00:33:11] Lori: Yeah.
[00:33:12] Erika: Well, you know, as we close out for today, are there any final thoughts or any, you know, tips, anything you'd like to share with our listeners?
[00:33:22] Lori: I think that the biggest thing is there is help out there, and there is nothing to be afraid of. And if you need someone to hold your hand when you shine that bright light on. Come see us or see someone else. But if you see someone else, make sure you know how they're paid. I'm paid by the hour.
[00:33:42] Lori: It's very simple. It's just like a plumber, right? If you're sitting in front of me, the clock is ticking, and it's just like with a therapist. Therapist, and then there's an hourly rate, and it's just that simple. But people who say, Oh, well, I'm just gonna take a percentage of your assets under management.
[00:34:03] Lori: Then when you succeed, I succeed. All right now. So that's like 1%. If you have a million dollars, which would be a lovely position to be in, you know that person is making a $10,000 a year on you, and I guarantee they are not getting you that much upside because you know, over 90% of the time, over the last two decades, people who are doing their own trading are losing to the s and p 500.
[00:34:31] Lori: So, don't fall for any of that. And then somebody, I've had people say, Oh, well, he doesn't charge me. And I'm like, okay, then he doesn't eat. Or he is charging you, and you are the product. So you are being sold a bunch of stuff that you don't need. And that's really a horrible situation. So. Unless it's a flat fee, hourly. Uh, I don't love the flat fee people because they charge a bunch of money by the quarter and they're not doing it. I mean, that's a scam. There's a lot of margin there, and that's why I started this firm as hourly because that's, I think, the best way for people to get financial advice, just like it's the best way for them to get therapy, right? So please be careful, get advice, but
[00:35:22] Lori: know what you're getting.
[00:35:23] Erika: Well, Lori, thank you so much for helping us to shine a light into the dark, spooky corners of our finances. This was exactly the treat we needed heading into the end of the year.
[00:35:34] Jen: If you wanna learn more about Lori and Fearless Finance, check out fearlessfinance.com. We'll link everything in the show notes.
[00:35:43] Jen: If our listeners put chair in the promo code section on Lori's contact form, you will receive $50 off your first meeting. Lori, please tell our listeners other ways they can contact you and
[00:35:56] Jen: Find you on social media.
[00:35:57] Lori: So you can find us on social media at TikTok and Instagram. Just, just type in Fearless Finance, and you'll get to us. And the same with Facebook. You can just either look me up or look Fearless Finance up on LinkedIn. But again, our handles on everything are Fearless Finance, and I think on X is Fearless hyphen Finance. But. We're not that active on X, and you can always get me. There's a contact form on the site, and we see it every day, and somebody will get back to you within one business day. So just, just cite, share the promo code, or in the note, and I'll know what this is from, and we'll get right back to you.
[00:36:37] Erika: Awesome. And thank you for tuning into another episode of Off The Chair. If today's Spooky Finance Talk helped you, share it with a friend. No tricks, just treats.
[00:36:49] Jen: We will see you next time right here on Off the Chair. Happy Halloween.
